Heh, homos with out pity is all about hating. If they could coordinate the hate they could move a small moon *G*

Hi.

I don’t know if you realize it, but by saying “homos” in this derogatory tone, you’ve essentially spit hate at people who might be the good friends, family, or even users of this board. In my case, it’s some of the best friends I could hope to have. People who don’t deserve terms like that.

I don’t want this to end up devoted to the topic of homosexuality, since this isn’t what the board is for, but I had to respond publically to a comment made in public. I’m not going to respond to any more posts on the subject but if anybody wants to continue further, you can email me.

Respectfully,

LC

Wes doesn’t count?
How ’bout Wes, Fred and Lorne? Wes does the occasional spell,
Fred
does the dimensional rip thing, Lorne reads souls…

Why don’t they count again?

They don’t count because they’re not going to walk into a random room
and throw knives with their mind, teleport people a mile into the air, flay
the skin from someone’s body with a gesture, etc. There’s a pretty clear
Buffyverse line between people who read words from a book (Wesley/
Fred) or have one specialized magical ability (Lorne) and folks who have
the ability to do just about anything they want with the magic inherent
to them.

Well, so long as it keeps them away from the horrible “magic as heroin”
metaphor, I’m happy.

I did quite go off Spike when the whole in-love-with-Buffy phase started, mostly because it seemed to be a commercial decision rather than a real characterization one, and it tried to make him far too sympathetic too soon.

While I can understand the indictment of it as a commercial decision, I thought they handled it pretty well. I found it interesting that despite the fact that there might have been “true love” going on, he managed to seek the most base representations of love (at least in season 6) – namely, sex and Buffy letting him get away with whatever he wanted to do – culminating in the attempted rape. In other words, despite love he was still soulless and evil. His actions after Buffy’s resurrection and before obtaining his soul were aimed entirely at getting what he believed were his just rewards for being a “good” guy in the fight with Glory, and I thought that was interesting and compelling, especially since I could always find myself wondering how bad things would suddenly turn if his chip malfunctioned.

Maybe I’m looking too hard for things to like about the 6th season, but I did think that Spike was the most interesting thing going on at the time. :)

I’m a Spike fan myself. I never understood the hatred for him, except for possibly anti-BTVS-post-high-school backlash. On the Internet, it could also be male backlash against the fact that a LOT of the ladies really seem to dig the Marsters.

Spike’s faded appearance in Fred’s office, though, would be classic manipulative Spike and I think was quite intentional.

Yeah, I had to stop reading TWoP because of Strega and her gang of caustic avengers/people-who-hate.

My problem with ‘classic manipulative Spike’ is that really hasn’t been a side of Spike we’ve seen since the soul (iirc).

Maybe I’m being way too interpretive, but manipulative Spike could still easily work with a soul. Pre-vamp, he was very child-like, hurt easily and showing it easily, so delighted to read his poems to his mother and glowing when she said something nice, and so on, and so with the soul back, he might regress to a very child-like state which includes manipulation, “It’s not fair,” obvious lies, whining, and of course being a brat any time Angel (Dad) is around.

I did quite go off Spike when the whole in-love-with-Buffy phase started, mostly because it seemed to be a commercial decision rather than a real characterization one, and it tried to make him far too sympathetic too soon. If AtS can take this and reframe it to make him frequently obnoxious to the rest of the cast but entertaining and interesting to the audience, I think that’d be a great tack.

I was wondering if I was the only one to give up the TwoP recaps–increasingly, it seems to me as though the recappers (not just for Buffy and Angel) are constantly jumping up and down shouting, “Lookkit ME! Lookkit MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!” and riding their own hobbyhorses to exhaustion, instead of some of the genuinely funny and insightful writing that had been there.

Wes doesn’t count?
How ’bout Wes, Fred and Lorne? Wes does the occasional spell,
Fred
does the dimensional rip thing, Lorne reads souls…

Why don’t they count again?

They don’t count because they’re not going to walk into a random room and throw knives with their mind, teleport people a mile into the air, flay the skin from someone’s body with a gesture, etc. There’s a pretty clear Buffyverse line between people who read words from a book (Wesley/Fred) or have one specialized magical ability (Lorne) and folks who have the ability to do just about anything they want with the magic inherent to them.

Actually, IIRC, they mentioned that the dinner party group had been shut
down, well before the month had passed.

“Tonight may not be salvagable, but my guests have paid a high price.
Some higher than others, and I promised them a werewolf!”
(cryptozoologist gets biten) “And a month from now you’ll have one.”

And later on Gunn says that the “bistro of the bizarre has been shut
down”

So I dunno

It’s just as hard to believe that they haven’t put a magic-user type (with
limitations, of course, as they did with Willow on BTVS) on the team
(Wesley doesn’t count).

Wes doesn’t count?
How ’bout Wes, Fred and Lorne? Wes does the occasional spell,
Fred
does the dimensional rip thing, Lorne reads souls…

Why don’t they count again?

Yeah, I had to stop reading TWoP because of Strega and her gang of caustic avengers/people-who-hate.

Heh, homos with out pity is all about hating. If they could coordinate the hate they could move a small moon *G*

The only other new element was Angel choosing
deliberately not to save a person near the end.

I assume that we are talking about the doctor who got
bit in the end.

I would guess Angel’s rational for
that was that the doc was a bad guy anyway. Siveling
coward, yes, but he was still going to eat Nina alive with
the rest of them, just because they could!

This wanton cruelty would resonate with Angel. Killing
and eating someone just because you can is
something Angelus would do. If those people
were there to eat werewolf in order to gain something,
health, strength, better than viagra, whatever, that would
have at least mitigated their actions. But there was no < i>need on thier part.

This would pretty much take
anybody in that room off Angel’s christmas list. That
said, the only lives in the room he cared about were
Nina and his crew. If they want to eat one of their own,
call it population control.

Anybody have any other
theories on Angels motives there?

BTW, I think he
killed the werewolf in the begining because there was
the threat to the girl, sunrise presumably wasn’t for a
few hours and he had no means of containment.

My problem with ‘classic manipulative Spike’ is that really hasn’t been a side of Spike we’ve seen since the soul (iirc). The Yoko Factor was the last time he was *that* manipulative – it was pretty dark on the morally ambiguous scale.

Spike really hasn’t had many opportunities to be manipulative since then. Being an in-your-face kinda guy has worked well for him, and meeting his goals. But now, he’s sinking into hell, too proud to ask Angel for help, and needs someone to focus on his problem. He thought he had that before, but then Fred started to focus on the werewolf problem. Now, he has her undivided attention. (The fact that he became fully opaque after Fred promised to work on nothing but his problem suggests he had some control.)

Spike doesn’t manipulate unless it is the best way of meeting his goals. If something more direct would work, then he does that. He tried being direct with Fred (“I’m sinking into hell”) and it wasn’t long until she was working on other problems. Now, he’s inspired fear, pity and sympathy. I imagine if the first try had created the reults he wanted, he wouldn’t have had to be more manipulative.