The salt water, I think, is mostly a question of additional time and effort to purify it. Their technology is not as advanced as you might expect in some areas, so it does add a considerable extra effort.

The saltwater bit did bother me, because this is technology that WE ALREADY HAVE. Present day nuclear submarines do this every day. The only thing preventing us from using it on a large scale is the amount of electrical energy needed. It would seem inconceivable that a ship capable of FTL travel doesn't have the ability to produce that kind of power.

The saltwater bit did bother me, because this is technology that WE ALREADY HAVE. Present day nuclear submarines do this every day. The only thing preventing us from using it on a large scale is the amount of electrical energy needed. It would seem inconceivable that a ship capable of FTL travel doesn't have the ability to produce that kind of power.

I have to agree. I just cannot see how a society that has mastered FTL _and_ artificial gravity can be lacking some of the technology that they seem to lack.

The saltwater bit did bother me, because this is technology that WE ALREADY HAVE.

Having the technology isn't the same as having the equipment facilities, and resources.

Stevis

Good point, but which "minority?" Okay, so the actress was born in South Africa, but looking at her, she could be southeast Asian, Black, or Mediterranean Caucasian. Yeah, yeah, none of this should matter but, since it still matters in our culture, and since Galactica is about the survival of an entire human race, I would have expected a greater mixed presence. Certainly, if they're going to establish that, yep, dark-skinned humans exist among the colonials, I would have liked to have seen the fact more evident among the pilots and general population.

For that matter, the Asian presence is remarkably limited (though better than in the original series), especially given (a) the aforementioned context of the series, the survival of humanity and (b) the fact that the show is filmed in and around Vancouver. Certainly, Earth's version of the human race is predominantly Asian.

Of course, if Galactica, where much of the action takes place, is principally, say, a Caprican ship, perhaps Caprica is the Europe of the colonies. In the end, I found this to be less a problem and more something worthy of discussion.

Of course, if Galactica, where much of the action takes place, is principally, say, a Caprican ship, perhaps Caprica is the Europe of the colonies. In the end, I found this to be less a problem and more something worthy of discussion.

Hi, Sorry this doesn't relate to Battlestar Galactica

Hi, Sorry this doesn't relate to Battlestar Galactica

Ah, a spammer. Wonderfull.

Hi, Sorry this doesn't relate to Battlestar Galactica

Ah, a spammer. Wonderfull.

Not a spammer - a journalist doing research. (Notice she didn't try to sell you any viagra!)

An uncommon spammer, but the method is the same.

Hi, Sorry this doesn't relate to Battlestar Galactica, but I'm trying to reach as many people as I can -- I'm writing a story for The New York Times about avid DVD collectors [...] kahnwrites@gmail.com

I don't see what the big deal is.

What if she's freelancing?

I don't see what the big deal is.

What if she's freelancing?

I don't see what the big deal is.

Sorry, I didn't know it meant so much to you. I would have just glossed this meaningless little comment over without a second thought. In fact, I actually forgot about it for days before I re-read this story.

then a bunch of posts about how BG is turning out to be un-PC....Please, please don't go in this direction with the site.

Which "direction" would that be? I posted the comment as an "additional," but it's a valid topic. If a show set in Hong Kong had no Asian actors, we'd wonder. If a show set in New Orleans made no nod towards that city's racial composition, we'd comment on it. And if a show is about the human race and has only token representation of non-whites, then it's a topic for discussion. I'd hate for that to be the only topic for discussion, because I thought that this ep, while IMO not as good as the first two, was still excellent SF television. However, I don't see how addressing the racial/ethnic issue, or commenting on the show's political/thematic elements, represents a faulty or inappropriate "direction."

You could start a post on another aspect if these topics don't interest you. I imagine lots of people still want to talk about all aspects of Galactica, and they should be hitting the forum any moment now....

If a show set in Hong Kong had no Asian actors, we'd wonder. If a show set in New Orleans made no nod towards that city's racial composition...

To wonder why this FICTIONAL group of planets didn't have asians, blacks, or any other racial group is silly. If you are inclined to bring racial politics into all of your

Except they've shown us that the colonies do contain various races that correspond to Earth's, so it's fair to ask why we've seen so little of a particular race.

It's also valid to note if an ep raises a political issue that is relevant to and much under discussion at the time the show was made. That's no more an accident than Trek: TOS's forays into social relevance. Fiction does not exist in a vaccuum.

What really interests me is that the Constitution doesn't seem to spell out a relationship between the military and the civilian leadership.

Here in the US the military is explicitly under the control of the political leadership (ie, the President is also the Commander-in-Chief), the situation is much more fluid in the fleet (and therefore probably was so in the colonies).

Neither party seems to outrank the other absolutely, they each lay claim to different spheres of influence.

The colonies must have had their share of military coups.

Another example is how Adama took his cues from her during the hostage crisis. She made the decision that the government, such as it is, does not negotiate with terrorists. There for they either rescue hostages or bury them. Adama just happened to be more comfortable with Rosalind's choice.

Okay, I'll stop talking... For now.

Where in the US the military is explicitly under the control of the political leadership . . .

Just want to expand on something here, not taking issue with anything you said in particular. I don't know, exactly, what your (or anyone else on this board's) military history might be, but I do know several ex-military types who all took their oaths extremely seriously. While the military is ostensibly under the purvue of the civil authority, as you said, members of the US military swear an oath to defend the Constitution, and to obey legal orders. Not any orders. Not orders made on a whim that run contrary to the Constitution and military law. I called one friend of mine, an ex-Air Force Master Sargeant, after this episode, and he stated, "Some NCO must have taught him right." Apollo was upholding the Colonial Constitution first and foremost, whatever else his superior officers or the President told him.

In other words, it didn't matter what the civilian authority, or even the military authority told Apollo to do, he was upholding the law above all else. Makes him a good and honorable soldier in my book.

Where in the US the military is explicitly under the control of the political leadership . . .

Just want to expand on something here, not taking issue with anything you said in particular. I don't know, exactly, what your (or anyone else on this board's) military history might be, but I do know several ex-military types who all took their oaths extremely seriously. While the military is ostensibly under the purvue of the civil authority, as you said, members of the US military swear an oath to defend the Constitution, and to obey legal orders. Not any orders. Not orders made on a whim that run contrary to the Constitution and military law. I called one friend of mine, an ex-Air Force Master Sargeant, after this episode, and he stated, "Some NCO must have taught him right." Apollo was upholding the Colonial Constitution first and foremost, whatever else his superior officers or the President told him.

In other words, it didn't matter what the civilian authority, or even the military authority told Apollo to do, he was upholding the law above all else. Makes him a good and honorable soldier in my book.

I find this character totally unbelievable. Maybe it's just the bad acting, but c'mon, a skinny little blond tough guy? Maybe if they left out the obvious references to the original Starbuck. I find it painful to watch when she's trying to "act" like a tough guy. Other than that, I like the series so far.

Starbuck of 2005 appears to be a gifted pilot, an instructor, and has some personal issues including killing her boyfriend because she passed him after he busted his checkride. To combat this she postures a bit with 'all the boys' but breaks down when left alone to think about it

Compared to Battlestar Galactica of 1978 - 1979 had less character development in the 40 some episodes than this one has had in 3...

Starbuck of the late 70s was a pretty boy wisecracking side kick. don't remember him ever being a tough guy, just always there to stand next to apollo with some sort of sarcastic comment.

Starbuck of 2005 appears to be a gifted pilot, an instructor, and has some personal issues including killing her boyfriend because she passed him after he busted his checkride. To combat this she postures a bit with 'all the boys' but breaks down when left alone to think about it

Compared to Battlestar Galactica of 1978 - 1979 had less character development in the 40 some episodes than this one has had in 3...

Likewise. The old Starbuck was one-dimensional. What intrigues me about Kara Thrace is how complex she appears to be (obviously, we're only three eps and a pilot into the show), skilled and flawed and, yeah, very like any number of women I've known.

One of the reasons I picked her briefing as a highlight is that the scene did two things, one which we haven't yet seen much of on this show, and the other which we don't see much of in SF tv.

1. It was fun. Galactica has been suspenseful and dramatic, but it hasn't served up much humour (I'm just not getting into the funny bits involving Presidential Aide Doofus. Maybe that's just me), and this scene made me laugh. It was refreshing to have that contrast with the show's dark tone.

2. A group of young guys/space pilot-types acting like a group of young guys.

Likewise. The old Starbuck was one-dimensional. What intrigues me about Kara Thrace is how complex she appears to be (obviously, we're only three eps and a pilot into the show), skilled and flawed and, yeah, very like any number of women I've known.

One of the reasons I picked her briefing as a highlight is that the scene did two things, one which we haven't yet seen much of on this show, and the other which we don't see much of in SF tv.

1. It was fun. Galactica has been suspenseful and dramatic, but it hasn't served up much humour (I'm just not getting into the funny bits involving Presidential Aide Doofus. Maybe that's just me), and this scene made me laugh. It was refreshing to have that contrast with the show's dark tone.

2. A group of young guys/space pilot-types acting like a group of young guys.

Likewise. The old Starbuck was one-dimensional. What intrigues me about Kara Thrace is how complex she appears to be (obviously, we're only three eps and a pilot into the show), skilled and flawed and, yeah, very like any number of women I've known.

One of the reasons I picked her briefing as a highlight is that the scene did two things, one which we haven't yet seen much of on this show, and the other which we don't see much of in SF tv.

1. It was fun. Galactica has been suspenseful and dramatic, but it hasn't served up much humour (I'm just not getting into the funny bits involving Presidential Aide Doofus. Maybe that's just me), and this scene made me laugh. It was refreshing to have that contrast with the show's dark tone.

2. A group of young guys/space pilot-types acting like a group of young guys.

This Starbuck is one of my favorite characters on the show. I love the fact that in the miniseries she delivered the same line as the original Starbuck, at a card game, and gave it more nuance than Dirk Benedict could ever manage: "so how's the wife?" This character is very human, in some ways she's tough, in some ways she's not, in someways she's strong, and in some ways she's weak. The guilt she express to the commander felt real to me. She's far from one dimensional. I feel for her, and with her.

Oh, and does she have t'its? I haven't really seen her in a cat suit yet, or with makeup to make her look like anything other than another warrior. I haven't seen her in a gown a la Cinderella, or rubbing decontamination gel all over another officer. I pray we never see Kara all dolled up, or sexed up.

There was some sex in this episode, but even that was real. There were no suggestive curves under the sheets, or perfect postcoital makeup, or a scene that would look great on a pinup poster. In fact, neither of the people involved in the scene(s) looked like models. :)

The writers also do a great job with the character of the president. The show's producers have a great actress in the role, but I lost my mom to breast cancer several years ago. The character's responses are very, very real. Her words, the look(s) on her face during the meeting with the doctor, were very touching to me.

I think this show has some of the more consistently real female characters I've seen on television.

-Joe G.

Has anyone else noticed that she and Tigh seem to constantly be trying to get past their animosity to one another? They've had two scenes so far where they've tried to make up, but failed. Wouldn't it just be easier to hate each other and leave it at that?

Personally, I think there's some other connection between them compelling them to try and act nice to each other.

I find this character totally unbelievable. Maybe it's just the bad acting, but c'mon, a skinny little blond tough guy? Maybe if they left out the obvious references to the original Starbuck. I find it painful to watch when she's trying to "act" like a tough guy. Other than that, I like the series so far.

Starbuck of the late 70s was a pretty boy wisecracking side kick. don't remember him ever being a tough guy, just always there to stand next to apollo with some sort of sarcastic comment.

Starbuck of 2005 appears to be a gifted pilot, an instructor, and has some personal issues including killing her boyfriend because she passed him after he busted his checkride. To combat this she postures a bit with 'all the boys' but breaks down when left alone to think about it

Compared to Battlestar Galactica of 1978 - 1979 had less character development in the 40 some episodes than this one has had in 3...

> FTL jumps appear to be relatively instantaneous.

There's no evidence for this. It's clear that the people in the jump don't experience the passage of time, but for all we know a day of time passes in the rest of the universe for every lightyear jumped.

The rendevouz at Ragnar station does put some additional constraints on the dynamics, but I don't think it eliminates a flat "3 days for any jump" type of delay.

> If this is accurate, then the 33 minutes featured in the episode seems likely be the time it took the signal from the Olympic Carrier to reach the pursuing Basestars.

Or it could be the time required for Cylons to set up their FTL drives.

Or the Cylons could be sadistic bastards who understand that 33 minutes is long enough for the humans to get stressed out from worry/anticipation but not long enough for them to get any meaningful rest.

> If we assume that there is no type of FTL data transmission, which appears to be the case, based on the events of Water and the mini-series

Adama got a morning fleet briefing and a flash that Caprica was under attack. There may have been small courier ships but there was no reference to them.

> we can then calculate the maximum jump range of the fleet as a whole.

We can, but not from your assumptions. What I would use as a basis is the five possible water-bearing systems within a reasonable jump range. Say the average distance between stars is 4 LY and 1% have evidence of suitable plantary systems. That means you need 400 stars within jump range. Augh - sphere packing problem! Let's cheat and assume each star takes up a sphere of a bit under 3LY radius, that's a volume of 100 cu LY. A sphere of 40,000 cu LY has a radius of about 21 LY. Allowing for the handwaving, the fleet can jump between 20 and 25 LY.

Why would the fleet be able to jump 20-25 LY, vs. 5 LY or 100? It may be roughly the longest distance between two "adjacent" colonies - ships could always jump from one colony to another without stopping in uninhabited space. On the other hand "Ragnar station" suggests that there may be way stations in unoccupied systems and it may take multiple jumps to get from one colony to the next. (Or Ragnar station may just be a military base.)

In any case it's probably reasonable to assume that all civilian craft (and small military craft) have roughly the same jump capacity. Capital military ships may have a significantly larger jump capacity so they can outrun standard ships.

> Why haven't the Cylons used the tactic of jumping a group of fighters into the fleet, and standing on the missile release button since the movie?

The fighters (on both sides) lack FTL drive. The offset could easily be explained by insufficiently accurate information on the exact position of the human fleet.

> Other than drama, what yutz would design a ship with a flaw like the Galactica's landing pods?

The launch tubes are very small to make them difficult targets. Think archer slits in castles. The large landing pods allow fast landings by partially crippled fighters. They also allow large ships to be brought aboard.

> Behind the scenes stuff and observation tell me that the Galactica is modeled after an aircraft carrier. She has guns, but they are primarly defensive. Her real punch comes from her small craft compliment.

We haven't seen her take offensive action. You don't send bombers out to repulse an attack.

> Futhermore, the shape of the Viper launch tubes seems like it would put a crimp in the amount of ordinance that could be mounted externally.

Bombers could be launched from the pods since they don't have the same need to be able to be quickly launched to defend the fleet.

> FTL jumps appear to be relatively instantaneous.

There's no evidence for this. It's clear that the people in the jump don't experience the passage of time, but for all we know a day of time passes in the rest of the universe for every lightyear jumped.

The rendevouz at Ragnar station does put some additional constraints on the dynamics, but I don't think it eliminates a flat "3 days for any jump" type of delay.

You're right. I made that assumption based on general sci-fi convention regarding "space-fold"-like FTL systems.

And, from Ron Moore's comments on his BSG blog, you would appear to be correct. Jumping is pretty much instantaneous.

Why would the fleet be able to jump 20-25 LY, vs. 5 LY or 100? It may be roughly the longest distance between two "adjacent" colonies - ships could always jump from one colony to another without stopping in uninhabited space. On the other hand "Ragnar station" suggests that there may be way stations in unoccupied systems and it may take multiple jumps to get from one colony to the next. (Or Ragnar station may just be a military base.)

Except that, according to Moore, all 12 colonies exist within a single star system. Doesn't make much sense to me, nor apparently to him, but that's what he says is the case.

• The Cylons haven't been seen in decades, so they are not designed to battle them.
• They indicate the space around the colonies is a wasteland, so no grand menagerie of alien species to protect yourself from
• They are all one "country" so to speak, and the are VERY specific about not being a Police force. the military protect for external threats and the police protect from internal threats - Adama or something like that.

Long time reader, first time poster here.

So, WHY do they even have battlestars?

Case in point:

• The Cylons haven't been seen in decades, so they are not designed to battle them.
• They indicate the space around the colonies is a wasteland, so no grand menagerie of alien species to protect yourself from
• They are all one "country" so to speak, and the are VERY specific about not being a Police force. the military protect for external threats and the police protect from internal threats - Adama or something like that.

So WHY the HUGH galactic fleet in the first place????? Is there some non-Cylon threat that they have not discussed?

Dave

Why would you upgrade your military hardware if it makes you vulnerable to the only known threat there is?

It's not like it was a choice to upgrade to vulnerable systems. As for your other questions - I dunno.

I was actually wondering about this earlier. Why would you upgrade your military hardware if it makes you vulnerable to the only known threat there is? Do the colonies fight wars with each other? There seems to be no indication of this. The only explination I can come up with is some sort of insane political reasoning.

Hubris

Plain and simple. The Colonial military either assumed that had taken sufficient precautions to harden their new systems against any new Cylon infiltration techniques, or they assumed that the Cylons would not devlop beyond what they were.

Either way, they never expected the Cylons to employ sexpionage, or to work a worm into the very code of their latest security patch.

Do the colonies fight wars with each other? There seems to be no indication of this.

They did and that's one reason the Cylons were created. As for whether they still did after the war ended, I dunno.

Even if the Colonies did still fight one another, you still have to wonder about the sheer number of Battlestars. Why would 12 planets in a single star system need 120 warships? Hell, how would they support them?

Even if the Colonies did still fight one another, you still have to wonder about the sheer number of Battlestars. Why would 12 planets in a single star system need 120 warships? Hell, how would they support them?

Are all 120 warships battle stars?

According to the info on SciFi's website, yes they are.

(are they really all in the same star-system? Why even bother with FTL travel? Save it for another thread I guess.)

According to Ron Moore, yes they are.

(are they really all in the same star-system? Why even bother with FTL travel? Save it for another thread I guess.)

Long time reader, first time poster here.

So, WHY do they even have battlestars?

Case in point:

• The Cylons haven't been seen in decades, so they are not designed to battle them.
• They indicate the space around the colonies is a wasteland, so no grand menagerie of alien species to protect yourself from
• They are all one "country" so to speak, and the are VERY specific about not being a Police force. the military protect for external threats and the police protect from internal threats - Adama or something like that.

So WHY the HUGH galactic fleet in the first place????? Is there some non-Cylon threat that they have not discussed?

Dave

• Well first, the Cylons _are_ still out there. (Proven in pilot.) You have to _try_ to be ready.
• Life here began out there so we can guess there must be other... life somewhere, and it might not be friendly.
• I'm guessing that one Battlestar for each planet keeps them all one country. As an example, in Bastille Day they talk about how Geminon(sp?) was exploited.

Kinda like asking 'Why Does the United States have all those big aircraft carriers'